Trading Pride for Financial Guidance: A Candid Money Talk with Guests Stephanie and Kevin

G-Rex [00:00:16]:
Welcome to back to another episode of Shit That Goes On Our Head. Tonight, we have 2 really special guests. We have Stephanie and Kevin, And I recently interviewed with them on their podcast, and I'm gonna let Stephanie and Kevin introduce themselves.

Stephanie [00:00:35]:
Alright. So I'm Stephanie McCullough. Kevin and I decided we should start a podcast about 3 years ago. Wait. It's almost exactly 3 years from when we're recording.

Kevin [00:00:45]:
Exactly. Yeah.

Stephanie [00:00:46]:
Of 2020. Much by

Kevin [00:00:47]:
the time we yeah. Nice.

Stephanie [00:00:49]:
Well, yeah, we decided, like, a year before we actually started because, you know, you have to agonize about this and that and figure every little thing out, and then you realize, oh, I'm not gonna figure every little thing out. We're just gonna start.

G-Rex [00:00:59]:
Right.

Stephanie [00:00:59]:
So But we're both financial advisers. I've been doing it 26 years. It was a career change for me. I specialize in working with women, mostly women on their own, but, know, who feel intimidated by the whole money and investing thing and feel like they should know this stuff, but, hey, no one teaches us. So, you know, making a really safe space to have those, intimate conversations to figure out how money can best serve you because money is just a tool. It's not the end in itself.

Kevin [00:01:27]:
Kevin Gaines, I too, financial advisor. Been around the industry for Damn near 30 years at this point. Been a while. But, work primarily with, people who are retired. As I like to say, I don't help people save. I help people spend.

G-Rex [00:01:49]:
The

Kevin [00:01:49]:
big well, because the big issue is once you get into retirement, it's like, how do I spend the money, or how do I enjoy spending the money without freaking out? Oh my god. If this goes wrong, I'm gonna be eating cat food for the rest of my life. So yeah. No. There's a lot lot of stuff going on there. Yeah. So that's, Kinda where I focus, but, yeah, like Stephanie was saying, we started our podcast pretty much 3 years on the nose. And what's neat about the whole process of that was as we were designing what we were gonna do and the artwork, it was in that very special time when I had my COVID beard.

Kevin [00:02:30]:
Oh, nice. On the artwork, our our little logo, I have a beard, which actually only existed on my face for maybe 8 weeks.

Stephanie [00:02:42]:
I didn't even put that together. That's so funny.

Kevin [00:02:45]:
So yeah. So it's it's this Brief moment in time that, yeah, I had a full beard instead of just this goat that I have.

Dirty Skittles [00:02:54]:
I don't know that, though. Will it ever come back, do you think, The full beard?

Kevin [00:02:58]:
No. Because I don't grow it very well. Mhmm. So when I'm quarantined and only my wife has to look at it, You know, it's one thing, but when I gotta take it out in public, I get a little self conscious. Okay. I get a lot self conscious about it. So, yeah.

Dirty Skittles [00:03:12]:
I like the way you worded that when I have to take it out in public.

G-Rex [00:03:17]:
It it's like walking the dog. Instead, you know, we're just walking the beard. It's okay.

Kevin [00:03:21]:
Walking the beard.

Dirty Skittles [00:03:22]:
That's cool. So I think it's really interesting something you said, Stephanie, that I I didn't quite put together, but You create a safe space for women to talk about finances and make them feel comfortable. I feel like I could benefit from that for sure. I don't know. Like, me and a couple of my friends, I feel like we grew up with our parents doing everything for us and never having to learn on your own. So do you also just in addition to making them feel safe, you're teaching them real life practices. Right?

Stephanie [00:03:54]:
For sure. And in fact, a client texted me today this cute little, picture of it was, Winnie the Pooh and, Piglet. And she said, Piglet says, poo, what's the bravest thing you ever said? Asked Piglet. Help, said Pooh. And then my client said, thank you for facilitating my bravery. So, like, she can't talk to any of her friends around about money because she said they either have scads and scads of money way more than she does or they have nothing. So, you know, she either feels like super poor or super entitled and not entitled. Right? Right.

Stephanie [00:04:35]:
Privileged. And so who can she talk to? So I I think that's an issue for for most of us because we're told that it's not polite to talk about money. Right? It's it's And then we feel like we're supposed to know this stuff. But like you said, Skittles, like, nobody teaches us. Our parents usually aren't equipped to teach us because they didn't learn. So, yeah, it's definitely it's definitely an issue, and and I feel like the more we talk about it, Right? The more we normalize talking about money and the emotions that come along with it, because it's inevitably emotional, the better we'll all be.

G-Rex [00:05:13]:
And for me, you know, like, when I was growing up, they didn't have that in school. No. They had economics class, but they didn't teach you how to, you know, balance a checkbook or, you know, what are you gonna do when you retire? And because you're not thinking about that. Right? And so for me, I'm kind of like in Kevin's bandwagon. Okay. Now we have the money. How are we gonna spend it?

Stephanie [00:05:35]:
Yeah.

G-Rex [00:05:37]:
And we have no problem doing that. Believe me. We But but we are also being super smart about it too. Right? Because, my wife, you know, she's 11 years older than I am. But we wanna make sure that, you know, 10, 15 years down, why we still have money. Right? We don't wanna, like, flow it all. I mean, I could. You know? So I get limited on my Amazon purchases.

G-Rex [00:06:03]:
But, you know, I I went back to work for that whole reason is And, really, the whole reason I went back is because I need insurance. I'm not old enough to to get it. Yeah. So, you know, the 30 hours I work a week, it's it's enough for me, and I you know, my benefits are paid, so I I'm kinda cool with that, and then I can focus on the podcast.

Stephanie [00:06:30]:
There you go. Yeah. That's the real thing. Like, I've talked to people who've graduated from some of the top MBA programs in the country, like masters in business. You'd think they'd teach them about money. And they know about corporate finance and government finance and financial markets, but not personal finance. And when I was in college, like, we'd walk down the A little walkway to the student center, and people would be throwing credit cards at us. Right? Like, here.

Stephanie [00:06:54]:
I get a free T shirt for you if you sign up for our credit card or get a free Frisbee. So, of course, lots of us got into debt because we didn't understand this stuff. So, yeah, they're just we're thrown out into the world to sink or swim with without the resources.

Kevin [00:07:07]:
Yeah. I mean, and that's the problem for college kids today is they don't get all these free t shirts with their credit cards, so they got to do laundry more often than I ever had to. It's like, oh my gosh. I'm out of a clean shirt. Let me go sign up for, the go to Citibank and get a credit card. Hey. Look at that. Hey.

Kevin [00:07:23]:
I don't to do laundry for the whole weekend.

Dirty Skittles [00:07:26]:
I remember getting, like, my 1st checking account and getting, like, a casserole dish. Do they still do

Stephanie [00:07:31]:
I don't know.

Dirty Skittles [00:07:32]:
Think I got nothing to

Stephanie [00:07:32]:
do with it. Got a toaster one time.

Dirty Skittles [00:07:36]:
So in addition to laundry, you also need to do more dishes.

Kevin [00:07:39]:
And you deeded the dish. Absolutely. You gotta have something to put in the microwave. Right?

Dirty Skittles [00:07:44]:
Is this how you guys met this industry? Yes.

Kevin [00:07:48]:
Yes.

Stephanie [00:07:50]:
We've worked together how long, Kevin? Twenty something years?

Kevin [00:07:53]:
So you're already there, and I started January 8, 2001. So

Stephanie [00:07:59]:
I started 97, so I've been there a few more years than you.

Dirty Skittles [00:08:03]:
And you said it was a career change for you.

Stephanie [00:08:05]:
It was. What were you doing before? I worked for the federal government after I got my master's degree. I was working in Washington DC and helping US companies export, and that was really Fun. And then I worked for I was following specifically the telecommunications industry, and then I got a job with a telecommunications company that happened to be Headquartered in Paris, so that sounded really cool because I got to fly to Paris and see my direct boss and my coworkers. But the uncool part was they all got, like, 6 weeks vacation because they were based in France, and I got 2 weeks vacation because I was based in Maryland. So that job didn't last too long, and then we decided, oh, maybe if we wanna have kids, it'd be nice to be near the grandparents, and they were all near the Philadelphia area where we had grown up. And my husband got a job offer in Philly. And I was like, well, shoot.

Stephanie [00:08:55]:
What am I gonna do? I I guess I could go work with my Dad, even though I grew up not wanting to do what he did, he was a financial adviser. He's a excellent salesperson, and, that just turned me off. Sales part, like, Give me the skisies. Right? Like, ugh. So I made a whole pitch to him that I could join the business, and, of course, It was like you had me at hello. Right? Like, one of my kids is interested in the business. Come on in. Aw.

Stephanie [00:09:21]:
Yeah. But it was a whole evolution from there.

Dirty Skittles [00:09:24]:
Yeah. And so did you grow up learning about finances?

Stephanie [00:09:28]:
A bit. I mean, I learned certain things like But I think I learned, you know, certain, you know, biases that my dad had. Right? Like, debt is bad. Debt is bad, period. You never carry a credit card balance. You don't go into debt. Okay. A mortgage.

Stephanie [00:09:44]:
That's it. Which, You know, debt is a tool like anything else. You have to use it wisely, but it's not necessarily evil. You know, and I I have more life insurance than More life insurance policies than anybody else because my dad sold life insurance. And when he had to make a quota, he'd buy more on his kids. So I've got lots of life insurance.

Kevin [00:10:04]:
But there are little policies.

Stephanie [00:10:06]:
They are. There's lots of little policies. Yeah. And then I had some mutual funds, but I don't I don't think I necessarily understood them. Probably because I had no interest. Right? Like, You probably tried to teach me, and I was like, no. Thanks.

Dirty Skittles [00:10:20]:
That was so funny.

G-Rex [00:10:26]:
So, Kevin, how did you get into the industry? Is something that you always wanted to do, or did you kinda fall into it?

Kevin [00:10:35]:
Well, Yeah. It's kinda something I always wanted to do. And the story of my path is I get all these great ideas, and I start off with this energy, and then it just kinda peters out. So I never according to my mother, when she's down on me, I never quite reached my potential on a lot of these things. But, no, I mean, I started, early, getting back to Personal finance and school. My county in Maryland. I'm gonna shout give Carroll County Public Education A shout out here. They actually had a class.

Kevin [00:11:12]:
General business studies is what it was called. But in that course, you actually learned, Here's how to balance a checkbook. Here's how to do a lot of basic accounting functions type stuff. Nothing that would be that you could build a career off of, but, you know, there was a lot of basic understanding. And then from there, for some weird ass reason, I was always interested in taxes. Like, I'm in I'm in high school watching dad Curse a lot as he's trying to fill out the 10:40. It's like, oh, this is This is interesting. I hope these forms are interesting.

Kevin [00:11:54]:
You think I was gonna aspire to be an accountant? Yeah. That didn't happen. But, Yeah. And then I went to school, and I had this, well, before I went to college, my, senior, what they have, our objective or our goal in life or whatever. I still remember mine, to become a billionaire and abuse the power that comes with it.

Dirty Skittles [00:12:16]:
There you are.

Kevin [00:12:18]:
Not a billionaire, and I have no power to abuse, but Yes. The sentiment still rings dear to my heart. But yeah. So you know? And then I went to school for finance. Completely screwed up my 1st, 3 semesters at school, got my ass kicked out. Then ended up going to a different school And had enough time to get a 2nd major, so, hey. History's fine, so I got that. But yeah.

Kevin [00:12:49]:
And then from right then and there, it's like, hey. Let me just I know I wanna go into I wanna be a stockbroker. I wanna be rich. This is the early nineties. Mhmm. And, Yeah. So, you know, tried 1 or 2 things, and then I saw ad in the back of the paper saying, hey. Wanna be a stockbroker? Come join us.

Kevin [00:13:12]:
So it's like, what can go wrong with that? These big firms don't wanna talk to me because I don't know anybody. Yeah. The secret back then was to work for the Goldman or the Morgan Stanley or whatever. You kinda had to know somebody you kinda had to have money. It wasn't me. But this sounds like, hey. They're gonna stockbroker. What I didn't quite understand at the time was They were what's called a boiler room operation.

Kevin [00:13:39]:
So Wolf of Wall Street is

Dirty Skittles [00:13:42]:
the most recent that.

Kevin [00:13:44]:
It's the most recent version of this, quote, unquote industry. It's really a high pressure, Like, 1 step above legal. Although, in most cases, it actually was, like, 10 steps Below legal ended up being, but, technically, they were kinda structured to have this veneer of, legitimacy. But yeah. I mean, basically, what you do is you got on the phone, dial from 8 in the morning to 8 at night, And trying to convince anybody who answers the phone to buy whatever literal piece of shit stock We were pumping that day.

G-Rex [00:14:29]:
Wow.

Kevin [00:14:29]:
I mean, it was it was not the most legitimate Of,

G-Rex [00:14:35]:
times in your life,

Kevin [00:14:36]:
shall we say. But, yeah. Then I figured that out. It's like, Yeah. You know what? If I don't get out of here now, my ass is gonna go to jail, probably. And, you know, a lot of a lot of them did. Wolf of Wall Street. Their asses went to jail.

Dirty Skittles [00:14:54]:
Yeah.

Kevin [00:14:55]:
So yes. And then I just, you know, Then moved on to, a bank and worked in financial sales there. And then one day, My girlfriend at the time says, I wanna be closer to my family. Her brother had just had a child, you know, I wanna be so I'm moving Out to the Philadelphia area. You can come with me if you want, but I'm moving I'm moving north. So that was like, man, what the hell? So I moved north, and then I married her. Aw. So

Dirty Skittles [00:15:28]:
I love that.

Kevin [00:15:30]:
So and, you know, the job I found up here was Working for a financial advisor firm, and, that's where I met Stephanie. And I haven't left my wife, and I haven't left Stephanie.

Dirty Skittles [00:15:49]:
Oh, man. Wolf of Wall Street. No kidding. I kind of want it like, I'm like, if you had to pick between it was Leo and what's the other actor? Jonah Hill? Is that his name?

Kevin [00:16:00]:
Jonah Hill. Yes.

Dirty Skittles [00:16:01]:
If you had to pick between those 2, who would you say you were in that movie Or none. They're both kind of scandalous, I guess.

G-Rex [00:16:08]:
That's probably not an appropriate question.

Stephanie [00:16:11]:
Were you, like, the peon in the background just Calling on the phone and getting yelled at all times?

Kevin [00:16:15]:
I was one of those I was one of those schlubs that, yeah, that was just dialing.

G-Rex [00:16:18]:
Yelled at.

Kevin [00:16:19]:
I probably would have been closer to the guy who got Fired for bringing his goldfish in, if you remember that scene. Jonah Hill ends up eating the goldfish.

G-Rex [00:16:28]:
Yeah. That that

Kevin [00:16:29]:
probably would have been me. I, Yeah. Because I had the solutions. Oh, I'm a stockbroker. I'm gonna be legitimate companies and making all these great wonderful trades, I didn't realize I was a salesman, And, you know, that's all you had to do, so I didn't quite appreciate what was required to succeed in that job, Fortunately, because had I succeeded, I, again, probably must be in jail.

Dirty Skittles [00:16:57]:
Right.

Stephanie [00:16:57]:
And probably divorced.

Kevin [00:17:00]:
You know, there's probably a lot of bad things that, yeah, that would've happened as a result of that.

G-Rex [00:17:06]:
Yeah. I don't think you would've done well in jail. Yeah.

Kevin [00:17:08]:
I'm way too pretty to be in jail.

Dirty Skittles [00:17:13]:
That's crazy. Oh my word. Such a different world than what we're used to, right, Your ex?

G-Rex [00:17:19]:
Yeah. But I understand, like, where he's coming from. Like, you know, you wanna get into an industry and you, You know, you don't know Jack. Right?

Kevin [00:17:27]:
We've Right.

G-Rex [00:17:28]:
We know back in the day. That's how we found jobs. This isn't like in the back of the newspaper or the back of a magazine. You know, people kids today, they have no idea. Like, I don't even think they know what a newspaper is.

Stephanie [00:17:39]:
Right.

G-Rex [00:17:39]:
But But, you know, that's how you found a job, and and sometimes they were shaky. Like, one of my first jobs was a, I was a collector. Right? Oh, thank you. Hear us at, you know, big words, you know, like, you're gonna make a ton of money, blah blah blah. Mhmm. You know, you You people threaten you with their threaten your life. Right? Because not my not my cup of tea. No.

G-Rex [00:18:05]:
I I was like, yeah. I'm nope. I'm gonna go find something else to do. Mhmm. I would go home, and my stomach would hurt. Right? I mean, like, these people don't have any money, and here you're trying to, like, you know, threaten them. I I'm not that type of person.

Dirty Skittles [00:18:21]:
This one's awful. Yeah.

Kevin [00:18:23]:
Yeah. No. There's, back in the day, shall we say, there were some jobs that Required a certain temperament that, not everybody possesses. A certain generous way to describe it?

G-Rex [00:18:39]:
Yeah. And, you know, thank God for the federal law because, you know, some of those people would still be, like, in business. You know? Now, you know, there's more regulation around the financial Finance and, you know, collections and things like that. But, you know, back in the day, we didn't know. You know, it was, like, 35 years ago. Yeah.

Kevin [00:19:00]:
Yeah.

G-Rex [00:19:00]:
But, you know, you know, I I I wished Now, you know, just looking back on my wife that I I had a step nearer, Kevin, you know, when I was growing up because, You know, we didn't learn about financials. Right? We didn't learn about putting money in our four zero one k. We didn't learn about, you know, balancing our checkbook or robbing Peter to pay Paul. You know, we didn't have that. And unlike dirty Skittles, I mean, my parents were around, but they didn't really Dang. Teacher's Jack. Right? Like, I just watching them, you know, rob here, pay Paul. And I I think that a lot of people in In my generation, that is the same for them.

G-Rex [00:19:40]:
Right? And

Kevin [00:19:41]:
Yeah.

G-Rex [00:19:42]:
It it's really difficult. Right? And when you You look across the board like your friends. Right? Some some people got it all together. Some people are kinda middle of the road, and then there's other people that, you know, are barely making it from paycheck to paycheck and, you know, and it makes me feel bad that, you know, we actually we're, like, Kinda middle of the road. Maybe more than a little bit more middle of the road. But, like, I I wanna help people. Right? Like, We we have the means, and we can help people and help them understand, you know, that you don't really need To rob Peter to pay Paul, I mean, a lot of it is pride. Right? People are they have they're so prideful that they don't wanna ask for help, And, like, death, it's a real it's a real problem, especially, like, up where I live.

G-Rex [00:20:37]:
I live in farm country in upstate New York. Right? And there's a lot of people that are robbing Peter Peter to pay Paul. And Yeah. So, I mean, We can do a lot of stuff anonymously, but, you know, eventually, people catch on.

Stephanie [00:20:54]:
Well and I think too, like, What you see on the outside doesn't necessarily tell you what's going on in people's bank accounts. You know? There's a lot of people who are scrambling to To keep up and keep up appearances and drive the nice car and have the right brand of clothes and the fancy phone, but they might be deep in debt, and you really Have no idea. So if we're just comparing ourselves to what we see of our neighbors, what kind of car they're driving or what we see on social media, might feel like, oh my gosh. We're the only ones that don't have it together. But in reality, when you scratch beneath the surface, there's a lot of people who are, you know, Putting on appearances that they can't quite afford.

Kevin [00:21:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I was in my twenties, I mean, I remember doing, Hell, I'm in my fifties, and I still do this, which is I mean, I look at people that I perceive as being in similar situations as me, And they have the nicer car. They have the nicer house. They have the nicer vacations. They do all this stuff, And I feel like I'm failing. It's like, what if, you know, what did I do wrong that I'm not able to do All of these things that these people are doing. But, you know, to Stephanie's point, you know, they might just be, You know, they might be sitting on borrowed time, financially speaking, and, you know, I'm not.

G-Rex [00:22:16]:
And drowning drowning in debt. You know? A lot of that too is what student loan debt too.

Stephanie [00:22:21]:
Oh, yeah.

G-Rex [00:22:22]:
Oh, yeah. Like, for me, I know I I'm gonna be I'll be a 105 years old before I pay that off. You know what? I'm I'm fine with that because it is what it is. And, you know, I I I just I I think it's so interesting, like, what you guys do, like, because you're on 2 kinda different ends of the spectrum. Right? Stephanie is all about, like, helping women, like, come to terms with, like, what they have. And then Kevin's like, okay. So you have all this money now. Let's see how we can spend it.

G-Rex [00:22:53]:
And, I think that's a good balance. Right? Because we we work our entire lives. We should be able to spend some of that money on ourselves by the time we get to retirement. So, Skittles, that's, like, 20 years for you. For me, it's like 5.

Dirty Skittles [00:23:12]:
One day. One day. Is there maybe, like, a common misconception that you hear that maybe you wanna share or because when you said retire and time to spend money, I immediately was like, isn't that the time where you don't wanna spend the money because that's all you have? So maybe that is, like, the common misconception. Like, how do you make people comfortable?

Kevin [00:23:38]:
Not necessarily easy. But I will say this. The closer you get to retirement, your mindset starts to change. It's not this it's no longer this nebulous time of, oh, I'm going to be old, and I'm going to Not wanna do anything or, oh my gosh, to the other end, I have this pressure of all this Time that I've got to figure out how am I gonna pay for life.

Dirty Skittles [00:24:11]:
Yeah.

Kevin [00:24:12]:
But as you as you approach That time of when you're transitioning into the retirement because it's very rarely, literally, On June 30th, you're working. In the July 1st, you're retired, and it's a flip of a switch. Generally, there's a little bit more of A transition period. You may literally stop the job or, obviously, you're gonna stop the job just one day for a lot of people, but there's still this adjustment period. But during this period before and after, you know, you start to figure it out. Oh, the world is my oyster. That analogy. But, you know, then it's the conversation of, well, what do I wanna do, And can I do it? So that's a lot of my conversations with my clients is, what do you want to do? Don't worry about the money.

Kevin [00:25:17]:
What do you want to do? Mhmm. At this conversation. Next conversation, reality is gonna slap you Hard across the face, but today, let's have fun. And, you know, what do you wanna do? And it's not necessarily I wanna try to spend $1,000,000,000. You know, a lot of people, their retirement plan is, you know, I just I wanna take it easy. Maybe, you know, work a little, you know, to pass the time or in a job that interests me.

G-Rex [00:25:47]:
Mhmm.

Kevin [00:25:48]:
Or maybe, you know, volunteer or something. And then it's like, okay, let's see what, you know, what do you have? Can we do this? Yes. Great. Let's go on. Now okay, so what kind of adjustments can we make? But it's a series of Conversations to embrace the potential and then, unfortunately, yeah, sometimes. Alright. Now we just need to Take it down a notch to make it happen.

G-Rex [00:26:16]:
So basic I was just gonna say, Stephanie, don't you think that a part of that conversation, though, is To maybe not wait until you retire to do do those things. Like, travel while you are still making a full time paycheck And, you know, make those memories while you have the money instead of waiting until you get down to your retirement age When, for most people, you know, with Social Security, you're not making quite as much as you were working. Some people make more. But, like, I think part of that conversation is, like, live live for today. Right? Don't live for retirement because Once retirement hits, there's a lot of people that retire, and then they get sick and then they don't get to do those things. So I think that's part of the conversation too.

Stephanie [00:27:09]:
Oh, absolutely. It's a lot about the balancing the now and the future. Right? And we don't wanna be in total self denial mode today Just putting away as much money as we can for some far off nebulous future, and we don't wanna spend everything we've got Plus today either. Right? So it's it's definitely a balance. It's a conversation, but I've had multiple, Let's say permission giving conversations with clients. Can I really afford to do that knitting trip to Scotland? Yes. You actually really can. And if you're nervous about it, right, like, you know, save a little bit before you go, but you can absolutely afford.

Stephanie [00:27:52]:
And I'm not gonna lie to them. I'm gonna tell them if they can't afford. Right? I have 1 client who has been dying to get an electric bike, an ebike. And she was like she was looking at used ones. I was like, you can afford A brand new one. Mhmm. It's been, like, a year and a half, and I cannot convince her to get the darn bike. So but I think, you know, we all have different kind of personalities about this stuff too.

Stephanie [00:28:16]:
Right? A lot of it is the messages we received growing up. I have other clients who call me up like, hey. I bought a I bought an RV last week. I'm like, oh, okay. That's nice. And then the other woman won't buy an ebike. Right? So, like, Y'all have very approaches to this stuff, and I think, you know, it can be informed by our circumstances growing up, and yet We can't necessarily predict. Right? I've talked to to clients who you know, they were in a household where parents were very frugal, and they kind of Got that same attitude.

Stephanie [00:28:47]:
Like, oh, I have to be careful about what I spend. Whereas their sibling went the whole opposite direction and can't keep a dime in their pocket because, you know, as soon as money comes in, it's spent. They lived through the same experience, but they took different lessons away from it. And I think So many of our money behaviors are driven by our subconscious or our head trash, you know, the stuff that goes like you said, I love the title of your Podcast is the shit that goes on in our heads. Drives a lot of our money behavior. So I do think there's value to trying to surface some of that shit. Right? What is it that's making me, you know, spend too much on Amazon or whatever it might be? Right? What's my pattern of behavior? What am I telling myself, and where might it come from? Not necessarily to change it, but just to bring a little bit more intentionality to how we Deal with our money.

Dirty Skittles [00:29:40]:
So it it almost sounds like you guys are financial therapists.

Stephanie [00:29:44]:
Well, that is an actual thing, Financial therapy. And there's a whole there's a conference coming up, the Financial Therapists Association. So we are not financial therapists, but that does exist. What? You're both making faces. Yeah.

G-Rex [00:29:55]:
Know that. Told it. What?

Dirty Skittles [00:29:58]:
Oh, yeah. I I say that, And I now I have to follow. Is it like, shoot. Maybe I need a financial therapist because my growing up, I don't think I'm like this anymore, although my my dad will tell me. But growing up, my dad, and for listeners, crazy 8, used to say I had champagne taste with a Burger King budget. Mhmm. And every time every time, I'm like, Yeah. I'm just gonna, like, buy this really expensive thing.

Dirty Skittles [00:30:22]:
I hear him, and then I'm like, no. I'm not gonna buy the really

Kevin [00:30:25]:
expensive thing.

Dirty Skittles [00:30:27]:
What Financial therapists exist, you're ex.

Stephanie [00:30:29]:
They do. Totally.

G-Rex [00:30:31]:
I I had no idea. Oh.

Kevin [00:30:33]:
Yeah. What do

Stephanie [00:30:33]:
they do? Couple on our podcast. I can share those Episode link. Yes. Yeah. For sure. What do they do?

Kevin [00:30:38]:
Because, again, it it's something people don't think of.

Dirty Skittles [00:30:41]:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. What do they do?

Stephanie [00:30:44]:
Like, G Rex, I'm loving your face right now.

Dirty Skittles [00:30:46]:
Right? I

Kevin [00:30:48]:
I'm 60 years old. Smacked.

G-Rex [00:30:50]:
Yeah. I'm 60 years old. I've never heard such Thanks.

Kevin [00:30:53]:
Mhmm. Mhmm.

Dirty Skittles [00:30:54]:
Do they just, like

G-Rex [00:30:55]:
my gosh.

Dirty Skittles [00:30:56]:
Do they, like, talk to you about your spending, like, and where it comes from emotionally?

Stephanie [00:31:00]:
Yeah. I think so. Right? Like, the psychology of it.

G-Rex [00:31:03]:
There's a

Stephanie [00:31:03]:
really great book, The Psychology of Money. It's not written by a therapist, but it's written by a, you know, a guy who about money all the time. It's really fascinating. Morgan Housel. But it's all about, you know, kinda like, it's not just Numbers and digits and spreadsheets and math, it's a lot of it is the psychology of what's going on and what's driving our Behavior.

Dirty Skittles [00:31:24]:
For sure. Have you had to have difficult conversations with with clients?

Stephanie [00:31:28]:
Oh, yes. Yes. So it's

Dirty Skittles [00:31:33]:
not always flowers and sunshine, rainbows.

Stephanie [00:31:36]:
It is not. It is not.

Dirty Skittles [00:31:38]:
Can you share, like, a random story or no?

Stephanie [00:31:42]:
I can.

Dirty Skittles [00:31:42]:
Oh, tell me when. I'm so curious. I'm here for the tea.

Stephanie [00:31:45]:
So a bunch of years ago, A a divorce attorney I know referred a woman to me. There she was a client of the divorce attorney, and she'd gotten divorced. And she needed some help getting her arms around her money. Now as a Single individual with some alimony, with a settlement. Right? What does it all mean? So I met with her one time, and I thought we got along quite well. And, you know, we looked at Her budget and where her money was going and what she was gonna have to live on, and she acknowledged at least this is my memory. She acknowledged that she was gonna have to cut some of her spending. And one of her largest line items was her car lease.

Stephanie [00:32:21]:
And it you know, some fancy car. I don't remember. But, you know, it was And I don't judge. Right? You can spend your money wherever you want. But she said, like, oh, I probably should look at that. That's what I remember. So then the next meeting, I brought in a mortgage lender person that I knew because part of the issue after you get divorced, if you're not the breadwinner, can you even get a mortgage without income? Right? So we were having that conversation, And I said something in the meeting in front of the mortgage guy about her looking into a less expensive car. And she didn't say anything right then, but she emailed me 2 days later, and she said, I was so offended that you basically shamed me from my car in front of What's His Face, and she left.

Stephanie [00:33:09]:
She was she was not a client anymore. I was like, Oh my gosh. Here, I thought we had come to an understanding, an agreement that you were gonna have to spend a little bit less, and a car was one of the areas of conversation. And I had thought I'd brought it up gently, but

G-Rex [00:33:23]:
Oh, triggered.

Stephanie [00:33:24]:
I think bringing it up in front of another person, I learned that lesson. I don't do that Anymore ever. Right? It's all very confidential. But then I've yeah. I don't I don't I don't know. It was Interesting.

Kevin [00:33:38]:
But yeah. I mean but that's the that's the thing about retirement. And this actually gets back to, an earlier perception you were talking about schedules, which is retirement isn't this Or the I guess the old ox phrase is the old way of looking at retirement is it's the end of the road. No. Retirement is this Beautiful opportunity in which you get to live all of your childhood dream, hopefully, With proper planning, of course. But you you this wonderful opportunity to live out all your childhood dreams, Except now you're over the age of 21, and you can legally do all of the things that you wanted to do when you said, when I get older, I'm gonna do this Or that or whatever. You actually have the time. You have the resources, But you don't have the responsibilities and the obligations you had when you were in your thirties, forties, and fifties, You know, trying to raise a family, put kids through school, or, you know, take care of your pair you know, whatever those things are that kept you from doing the stuff When you were younger, you're done with all that.

Stephanie [00:34:56]:
Hopefully.

Kevin [00:34:57]:
Hits her out of the house. They're married or on their own or if they get married, that's their problem. You go down and spoil the grandkids, you know, that's your family obligation. And if you wanna say to hell with it, we're gonna take a month and go tour, Fill in the blank, we're gonna go do it. Or if I wanna play golf every day, that's the that's the opportunity, And that's, you know, what we're trying to get back. And, Stephanie, this point, this take back retirement is it's yours. It's what you wanna do. How can we help you do that?

Stephanie [00:35:36]:
But also to Gerex's point, not putting it off all the fun stuff until that time. Right? It's it's still working some of the fun stuff in. Hopefully, you know, you want a good life all the way through.

G-Rex [00:35:49]:
Yeah. Because you just never know what's gonna happen. Right? Like, I've heard story after story of where somebody, you know, worked their entire life. They retire. Mhmm. And then the next thing you know, they're, like, super sick, and they can't they can't enjoy any of that. Right? So Put a tiny bit of money away, you can still afford to do, like, little fun trips. Right? Like, even if it's going an hour out of where you live And maybe, like, going to Syracuse or going to Philadelphia or or something like that, you know, but put fun into it.

Stephanie [00:36:26]:
Yeah.

G-Rex [00:36:27]:
Instead of making money depressing because money is depressing.

Stephanie [00:36:34]:
I think sometimes the unknown is scarier than actually once you sit down and talk about it. Like, oh, okay. Alright. I can I can do this? This isn't so bad.

G-Rex [00:36:43]:
And and knowing that, you know, there's people like you guys out there, right, that people can reach out to and, you know, have those conversations with. Right? Because you're You're right. Like, some people can't have those conversations with their spouse or their family or their friends. Right? They they wanna They wanna explore other options, but they need to feel like they're in a safe space. Yeah.

Kevin [00:37:05]:
Yeah. Oh, I mean, to that to that point, I mean, I have meetings, You know, with a couple, and then I'll have conversations with just spouse 1, and then I'll just have conversations with spouse 2. And it's like having 3 different clients. I got him. I got her. I got them. Mhmm. Entirely different conversations, all 3 of them.

Dirty Skittles [00:37:29]:
That's wild.

Kevin [00:37:30]:
To your point, yeah. I mean, there's just there's stuff, especially when it comes to money, that, you know, Even the most important person of your life is, like, there's there's a lot of a lot of shit that comes with That little green piece of paper.

G-Rex [00:37:49]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Like, I'm so glad you guys came.

Kevin [00:37:52]:
I I would say probably the Simplest thing to do it might be boring as hell if you're not all that interested in it, but the probably the most important thing you can do, listen to podcast Like ours. I will shamelessly say only our podcast, but podcasts like ours, you know, where it's more about Educating and saying, you know, these are the possibilities. These are the things that exist. Good and bad, just things to be aware of. And I really think the value is to your, to what was said earlier, which is, oh, I didn't realize. Oh, I didn't know. Oh, that's not as scary.

Dirty Skittles [00:38:30]:
Mhmm.

Kevin [00:38:30]:
Oh, yeah. You know, if that happens, it'll suck. But okay. So these are The parameter. Okay. So that's kinda how I would deal with it. It gives you a sense of like I said, you know, it's not the unknown unknowns anymore. It's now something you can start to get your head around, and it might make things less scary Or you might be a little less intimidated about the steps you need to take.

Dirty Skittles [00:38:56]:
And the the 1 question I did have, is Anybody can get a financial adviser now. It doesn't have to be later on in life. Right? Like, you could literally start now?

Kevin [00:39:09]:
That's a good question. I I would say yes. Absolutely.

Stephanie [00:39:14]:
Yeah. And I would say When you're looking for a financial adviser, step 1 is to get clear in what you want them to help you do. Because even though we kinda all call ourselves the same things, The weird part is, like, we have to have licenses, but we can call ourselves anything we want. I can call myself financial advisor, financial planner, wealth manager, Queen of the universe, like, there's no rules. So, you know, 10 different financial advisers might actually work in 10 different ways and have have 10 different kind of Value propositions. So just because your cousin uses, you know, the firm down the street, Your cousin might want something different than what you're looking for. So that's the first thing. Usually with all the money stuff is looking inward.

Stephanie [00:39:56]:
Like, What is it that I'm hoping to find? And then you gotta go out and find. There are more and more advisers who work with young people or who work with people who don't have money to invest. A lot of the folks in our industry get paid on investing your money for you. So if you don't have money to invest with them, you're not so profitable, and they don't necessarily wanna talk to you. But there are plenty of advisers. They might be harder to find who will, you know, charge just for their time, for their advice, or, you know, Lot of folks will will do free consultations even so you can get some good information there. So number 1, get clear what you're hoping they'll do, and then number 2, Go find someone who actually does that thing and who you feel comfortable with.

G-Rex [00:40:37]:
Love that. This. Love. You. Love love love this because, you know, this All kinda ties back to, like, the shit that goes on in our heads. Right?

Dirty Skittles [00:40:45]:
Mhmm.

G-Rex [00:40:45]:
And and the unfortunate thing about this shit that goes on our heads is that people don't like to talk about money Yep. Because it scares them. Yeah.

Dirty Skittles [00:40:55]:
Yep. This is a shit in the back corner over here that I know it's there that bothers me every night when I'm laying down scrolling on Amazon telling myself not to buy the turkey mask, but it's there. And now I feel like I can go

Kevin [00:41:07]:
No. The turkey mask is a moral obligation that has that has to be acquired. There there's the the fans are Turkey butts about that. Well, and and I do wanna

Stephanie [00:41:15]:
some level of of shame around money. Right? Like you said, like, there's things we do or we've done or this $1100 pair of earrings I bought one time because I was too embarrassed to say I couldn't afford them. That was ridiculous, and they hurt. I can't even wear them. I keep them as a reminder. Like, I was worried about what the salespeople would think of me. They don't care who I am. Right? That's why I had to buy something.

Stephanie [00:41:39]:
It was ridiculous. So we all have that shit that we've done. Right? But we carry guilt and shame around it. I talked to a woman one time. She's like, oh my gosh. If I work with you, I'd have to admit that I overdue my account last month. I'm like, you think I haven't under overdrawn my account? Oh my gosh. I can't even tell you how many times.

Stephanie [00:41:53]:
Right? Like so kind of normalizing that we all make Mistakes because we weren't taught about it and, you know, that it's okay.

G-Rex [00:42:04]:
Take your time. You know? You know what you want in the back of your head And and do what's best for you, not what's best for for them.

Stephanie [00:42:13]:
Totally.

Dirty Skittles [00:42:14]:
Right. Awesome.

Kevin [00:42:16]:
Couldn't you said it better?

Dirty Skittles [00:42:17]:
Where can our listeners find you?

Stephanie [00:42:19]:
So I would say go to take back retirement.com or on your favorite podcast app, Take back retirement. We have a mixture of episodes. We've got some, you know, kind of expert guests. We've got episodes where Kevin and I hold forth on something we think that would be Informational and helpful. And then we've got a series real retirement stories. G Rex was on one of our real retirement stories. You know, women who've actually Been there, done that, gone through the retirement door, whatever that might look like to them, whether voluntary, involuntary, smooth, rocky, Right? And and share some of their hard earned wisdom. So, hopefully, people find that useful.

Kevin [00:42:55]:
And just so there's no confusion, when you go to the website, you're gonna see a picture of Stephanie and myself, I'm the devilishly handsome redhead, just to be clear which one is which.

Dirty Skittles [00:43:07]:
Love that. Thank you.

Stephanie [00:43:08]:
Without the full beard. Yeah.

Kevin [00:43:10]:
Without the full beard. Yes.

Dirty Skittles [00:43:14]:
Thank you both so much. This has been incredibly insightful. Yeah. I feel I feel better. Thank you so much for for meeting with us and chatting with us and sharing what you do. It's okay to be not okay. Just make sure you're talking to someone.